and flourished until being wiped out after the last great battle that happened near the hill Cumorah. Ive known about it all my life since January 31 1956 First Presidency letter to Bishop Darrell Brooks, Oct 16, 1990. He was a warrior and chieftain under the great prophet Onandagus, who was known from the Hill Cumorah, or eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains. Pre-Columbian people did not settle or build here. We see this happen a lot in the Book of Mormon. In the skeptic’s version of the Hill Cumorah pageant, maybe they pass around gold plates for proof and give updated translations from the plates that were previously sealed? A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote thet the Hill Cumorah was in New York In 1990, a spokesman for the First Presidency of the LDS church affirmed that the , "The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon." By far, the majority of those killed in these battles were Jaradites, and that happened many thousands of years ago. 1 Yet this number may, at first, seem impossibly large. He repeatedly stated that the largest of all, the very Hill Cumorah, marked the site of the final battles of two civilizations. At this point the conversation took an interesting turn. The first battle took place among the Jaredits, who called the hill Ramah. Most LDS scholars (me included) believe that there was a hill in Guatemala or Southern Mexico that they called Cumorah. This gives skeptics the opportunity to throw a bunch of huge strawman arguments in there about what “other prophets have taught.” By providing little evidence to support their own claims, they appear self-evident, like the Book of Mormon must be false because it takes so long to explain it. Evidence for the binary context seems self-evident and irrefutable, with no need for further explanation, and then we can rapidly move on to other issues that bolster the the narrative. LDS prophets consistently spoke of that very hill near Joseph’s home, such as when Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, “It is known that the Hill Cumorah where the Nephites were destroyed is the hill where the Jaredites were also destroyed. DNA disproves? Mormon stated that the Lamanites killed roughly 230,000 of his people. Hill Cumorah LDS Prophets and numerous Apostles over generations have provided abundant official declarations identifying the hill in New York as the exact site of both epic Book of Mormon battles, where millions of warriors perished with their metal armaments. It doesn’t help to discount this vast field of study by calling scholars and investigators mere “unofficial apologists.”. “Early in 1928, the hill Cumorah was purchased by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Rather, there could be multiple locations called Cumorah. The answer should be obvious! Mormon clearly separates the hill Cumorah from where Moroni buried the plates (the drumlin in Palmyra). The Book of Mormon narrative tells of two epic battles that took place on a hill named Cumorah. Mormon mentions the hill Shim in Mormon 1:3 and 4:23, and the Nephites’ final battle at Cumorah in chapter 6 of his book. . (CES Letter). Mormons do not need to do this. Names are given to multiple places all the time in the Book of Mormon. No one doubts that the hill where Joseph Smith received the plates is known as Cumorah, but is the hill where the final battles between the Nephites and Lamanites took place another Cumorah? The Hill Cumorah near Palmyra, NY is central to all Book of Mormon events. There’s this last great battle at the Hill of Cumorah in upstate New York, located near Joseph Smith’s house, and at least 230,000 men, women, and children died in battle at this hill Cumorah. This is only a portion of the evidence I have seen on this topic, here is a sample, be sure to read info. They make the claim early on, and each following argument further bolsters the narrative. The notion of 2,000,000 warriors feeding themselves in a single nomadic location, while fighting a protracted war, merits additional consideration. The New York hill Cumorah is a simple drumlin hill (Irish meaning “Little Ridge), one of many in New York, a low lying deposit of till and glacial drift, left over from a melting glacier . Numerous early LDS leaders and non-members recounted the cave story, including Hyrum Smith, Orson Pratt, Edward Stevenson, David Whitmer, William Horne, W.W. Phelps and Elizabeth Kane. It reminds me of what they say: “pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” This narrative exploits the disagreement among LDS members about where the battle of Cumorah actually took place because of the fact that we really don’t know. The Battle of Cumorah. The two nations were four years in gathering their forces, during which no fighting took place; but at the end of that time, having marshalled all their hosts, the fighting commenced, the Lamanites coming upon the Nephites, and destroying all of them, except a very few, who had previously deserted over to the Lamanites.” [13], “The passages which I have quoted from the Book of Mormon and the more extended discussion of this subject by Elder B. H. Roberts which was published in The Deseret News of March 3, 1928, definitely establish the following facts: That the Hill Cumorah, and the Hill Ramah are identical; that it was around this hill that the armies of both the Jaredites and Nephites, fought their great last battles; that it was in this hill that Mormon deposited all of the sacred records which had been entrusted to his care by Ammaron, except the abridgment which he had made from the plates of Nephi, which were delivered into the hands of his’ son, Moroni. According to Joseph Smith and subsequent presidents and apostles of the LDS Church, the geographical extent of Book of Mormon lands included virtually all of North and South America. A single sentence was sufficient for Joseph to tell everything about the temptation of riches, but Oliver devoted six pages to the struggle with greed. Ether 5:11 In the second battle the Lamanites destroy the Nephites. Do Mormons need science to validate every single detail of their faith? Later the Nephites battled there and were all killed but Moroni. Angels set the entire place on fire This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama…and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.”, “It must be conceded that this description fits perfectly the land of Cumorah in New York, as it has been known since the visitation of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph Smith, for the hill is in the proximity of the Great Lakes and also in the land of many rivers and fountains. A good archeologists team can back this up By the Nephites this hill was called the ‘Hill Cumorah,’ by the Jaredites the ‘Hill Ramah’; it was that same ‘hill,’ in which the Nephite records were deposited by Mormon and Moroni, and from which Joseph Smith obtained the Book of Mormon, therefore the ‘Mormon Hill,’ of  today—since the coming forth of the Book of Mormon—near Palmyra, New York. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites. Your email address will not be published. Moreover, the Prophet Joseph Smith himself is on record, definitely declaring the present hill called Cumorah to be the exact hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon.”, “Further, the fact that all of his associates from the beginning down have spoken of it as the identical hill where Mormon and Moroni hid the records, must carry some weight. Have archeologists ever dug up remains of these two great battles in that area? Plenty of early Mormons and Mormon leaders have assumed that the small hill in New York is where the battle occurred, that is true. The 8-day Jaredite battle at Cumorah could not have involved more than a few thousand, as we see from the count of the actual number killed on the last two days. He combined and abridged the records and engraved them on gold plates. The Hill Cumorah and the Hill Ramah were where Mormon hid up all the records save those few that he gave to his son Moroni. The first occurred sometime before 600 BC in which some two million warriors were killed, along with their wives and children. In 1937–1939 Washburn and Washburn argued that the Nephite/Jaredite final battles at the Hill Cumorah were near the narrow neck of land, and thus unlikely to be in New York. THAT is where the Battle took place. We use the word “Cumorah” today as a proper noun to refer to small hill where Joseph Smith retrieved the gold plates. There slept the records of age after age, for hundreds of years, even until the time of the Lord.” (The Latter-day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate, Vol.2, No.2, p.221) “The hill, which was known by one division of the ancient peoples as Cumorah, by another as Ramah, is situated near Palmyra in the State of New York.” [7], “The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening.” [8], “We visited the Hill Cumorah…We were delighted to be there. Archaeologically speaking, it is a clean hill. This hill was known to the Jaredites as Rama. I understand that there was a battle near the Hill Cumorah or Ramah where two million Jaradites were wiped out as a civilization. A gathering of fewer than 1,000,000 people, “This time it will have to do with so important a matter as a war of extinction of two peoples, the Nephites and the Jaredites, on the self same battle site, with the same ‘hill’ marking the axis of military movements. Joseph Smith believed the numerous mounded earth hills located throughout the upstate N.Y. region, now known to be glacial drumlins, to be man-made Indian burial mounds. [A great battle was fought between the Nephites and the Lamanites in which the Nephite civilization was entirely destroyed.] The last battle of both the Nephites and the Jaredites took place at or near the same location. The hill Cumorah, with the surrounding vicinity, is distinguished as the great battle-field on which, and near which, two powerful nations were concentrated with all their forces, men, women, and children, and fought till hundreds of thousands on both sides … I was there and saw the ashes my self Cumorah is also the likely location as the gathering place of the Jaredite army of Coriantumr prior to the final battle of the Jaredites. It is also near the location of the final battle where the Nephite race was destroyed. Rock in a hat? Why is the church holding a pageant at the drumlin hill in New York if that isn’t really where the final battle took place? So, I believe that there were two different hills referred to as Cumorah. Joseph’s purported experience could only have been experienced in his mind’s eye, as we know beyond any doubt that no cave exists within the thoroughly explored Hill Cumorah. This hallowed hill continues to Cumorah had also been the site of the destruction of the jaredites roughly 900 years earlier. Even if it couldn’t be denied as legitimate, they would pass it off as coincidence. Come to Cumorah. Just imagine 260 thousand dead in the last battle and literally millions dead a thousand years before that.! From texas About 400 A.D. the last great battle was fought near the hill Cumorah; and the Nephite nation became extinct. Is There Evidence of Great Battles Near the Hill Cumorah? All rights reserved. It always leads to superstition, because no amount of science can prove without reasonable doubt that a historical object is what it purports to be. I’m trying to figure out how come there have been no artifacts found of the final great battle on Hill Cumorah near Palmyra, New York. Under the grass SW of todays visitors center The Hill Cumorah Pageant is a free, family-friendly event you don’t want to miss! It is the place where Moroni (last contributor) hid the record and the place where Joseph Smith found it. There is simply no evidence supporting any population growth of remotely similar scale anywhere in the world. and there were altogether in this room more plates than probably many wagon loads; they were piled up in the corners and along the walls.” [20]. And set on fire Moroni states in the book of Ether that the Jaredites gathered for battle near "the hill Ramah," the same hill where his father, Mormon, hid up "the records unto the Lord, which were sacred" (Ether 15:11). It’s an easy trick to play when it comes to ancient history, to discount every piece of evidence as coincidence, forged, contradictory, or unfounded. Its a real battlefield. I personally think the Hill Cumorah soil-sample “evidence” that some Book of Mormon readers “teach” is nothing more than a “Mormon myth,” but I’m willing to bide my time until my thinking is confirmed or until I have to “eat crow” as a result of my thinking. And that’s what it comes down to. I have a great interest in archaeology and would simply love to visit the museums where the artefacts of the two battles of Cumorah ( as featured in the Book of Mormon ) are housed. The Shroud of Turin? He saw “the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down.” This indicates the battle was in the general land, not the hill, and does not indicate anyone except those ten thousand were involved. 18 It is those plates that were given to Moroni by Mormon that Joseph Smith translated into The Book of Mormon. This means Cumorah was not exclusive to one place. Or just a certain version of science? An archaeologist can give plenty of convincing evidence, but it would take hours. CLICK HERE FOR OUR LATEST PODCASTS Donate. Indian legend supports this great and terrible battle that caused the death of hundreds of thousands of people. The Book of Mormon describes the final battle place between the Nephites and Lamanites as the land and hill Cumorah. This is likely not the same hill where Moroni later buried the plates containing the Book of Mormon. “…unofficial apologists have developed the Limited Geography Model (it happened in Central or South America) and claim that the Hill Cumorah mentioned as the final battle of the Nephites is not in Palmyra, New York but is elsewhere. The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening. There was a real church built in meadow decades ago across from hill Cumorah new york Are pageants always performed at the site of the scenes they depict? Oliver Cowdery, another of Smith’s primary witnesses, described how he personally accompanied Smith multiple times to return the plates into the Hill Cumorah. So yes, evidence has been found. Why? Archaeological evidence? In the final battle at the Hill Cumorah, the Lamanites completely decimated the Nephites. And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did hide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred. The Land of Cumorah was north of the Narrow Neck and east of Jaredite lands, i.e., the Land Northward.It’s important to note—no one lived in the Land of Cumorah—ever, besides preparing for battle. We are given too little information to tell. Human survival was long a precarious struggle, starvation a constant threat. Understanding the role of the Hill Cumorah in the early LDS Church can help us understand much of the character of Joseph Smith. And it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Some scholars suggest that Mormon hid a massive cache of records in a hill, but not that hill, because Moroni wandered for a time with the few plates he had. 59) Apostle Orson Pratt spoke many times about the hill Cumorah and never placed it anywhere but New York. Sensing that this might be “the last struggle” of his people, Mormon buried all of the sacred records of his people in the hill . Yet Cumorah yields no bones, no metal or armor, no roads or fortifications. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. The Jaredites arrived in North America about 2300 B.C. It is like claiming that the Library of Alexandria never really existed because we have no physical evidence today, apart from some alleged ancient tales. CES Letter switches the location of Cumorah/ Ramah to Canada in an argument later on because its geography does not fit New York. Skeptics can get away with this incredible claim because it is the consensus among so many people that Nephites never existed, and because it takes so long to explain the evidence. To opt out of Google Analytics, visit the Google Analytics Opt-out Page. Almost every LDS Prophet since Joseph Smith has reiterated the same narrative. Today, the Church operates a modern visitors' center at the base of the hill. The fact that Mormon scholars come up with multiple models for Book of Mormon geography implies guilt, that it is all made up. Faith is being okay with no knowing where the battle took place and yet still learning important lessons from the battle through personal critical thought. The Book of Mormon was translated from the plates given to Moroni and not those buried in the Hill Cumorah. No other choices. He then says he beheld groups of ten thousand led by others who had fallen, but does not indicate that they had fallen in this particular battle or location. It was there, in this Land of Cumorah, at the hill called Cumorah, that Mormon buried all the records except his own writings which he gave to his son Moroni. The Nephite, Jaredite, Mulekite, and Lamanite people are very much a part of these as well. There must be thousands of artefacts and I would love to see them. Moroni states in the book of Ether that the Jaredites gathered for battle near "the hill Ramah," the same hill where his father, Mormon, hid up "the records unto the Lord, which were sacred" (Ether 15:11). Apologists do not say Cumorah was not in New York. Within just a few days, every living creature within walking distance would have either fled or been consumed. I’ve actually searched the area myself but I couldn’t even find an arrowhead. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. This time it will have to do with so important a matter as a war of extinction of two peoples…on the same battle site, with the same hill. It clearly refers to two different places. I was there and saw the ashes my self The final battle. That place was sacred, holy ground. In the final battle at the Hill Cumorah, the Lamanites completely decimated the Nephites. Mormon writes a letter to the Lamanite King suggesting that the two armies meet in battle near the hill Cumorah—the Lamanite King agrees. I talked about the final battle that virtually annihilated the Nephites. It is also near the location of the final battle where the Nephite race was destroyed. Mormon 6; The historical records of these people were buried in this same hill. In 1901, Susan Young Gates said she saw “baskets filled with arrow heads” plowed up by local farmers. According to George Albert Smith, he and local farmers found “numerous spear and arrow-heads” at the Hill Cumorah site in New York. The Final Battle for Cumorah Reviewed by John Clark In a period of less than 900 years the Hill Cumorah, or Ramah, twice witnessed the self-slaughter of once-righteous civilizations, and its slopes wept with the blood of hundreds of thousands of mutilated victims. Doctrine. Mike Norton – Activist [Ye are the light of the world. In that hill were deposited all … Below are two articles from Wayne May’s collection of information about bones found near Hill Cumorah. ☼ Mormon 6:1–3: And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. How many were killed in the battle? Ether 5:11; In the second battle the Lamanites destroy the Nephites. The Book of Mormon describes the final battle place between the Nephites and Lamanites as the land and hill Cumorah. (CES Letter). The Hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon | Simiskey, Patrick L | ISBN: 9781949348101 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. Elder George Albert Smith, Conference Report, April 1906, p.56: This included not only the abridgment made by Mormon, but the records of the plates of Nephi (both large and small), the brass plates of Laban (brought from the land of Jerusalem), and the plates of Ether.” [22], The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. That they did speak of this hill in the days of the Prophet in this definite manner is an established record of history….” [6], “Cumorah, the artificial hill of North America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. For identification of the Hill Cumorah…Hill Ramah of the Jaredites (Mormon 6:1-11 and Ether 15:11). Is there some part of this pageant I don’t know about that declares “New York is where this really happened?” How is the visitor’s center for the location where Joseph Smith retrieved the plates evidence where the battle of Cumorah was located? Required fields are marked *, Privacy policy: This site uses Google Analytics to track and analyze visitor usage of this website, which may involve cookies. The final battles of this unholy war took place near a hill that was called Cumorah. The Book of Mormon asserts triple that number in very short order; even 2,000,000 dead (Ether 15) and later hundreds of thousands using steel weapons and armor (Mormon 6). The Book of Mormon does not mention swords, chariots, or armor existing anywhere near the time of the Cumorah battle, so why would those things be expected to be found? Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, BYU Studies. and flourished until being wiped out after the last great battle that happened near the hill Cumorah. But really, how is the existence of ‘alternative theories’ evidence of falsehood. “This book, which contained these things, was hid in the earth by Moroni, in a hill called by him, Cumorah, which hill is now in the state of New York, near the village of Palmyra, in Ontario county.” (Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt, pg. — That people forsook the Lord and died in wickedness. “Two Thousand Young Men Go to Battle,” by Arnold Friberg “Two Thousand Lamanite Warriors Go to Battle.” Artist unknown. That hill is only 30-50 feet high. In that day, her inhabitants spread from sea to sea, and enjoyed national greatness and glory, nearly fifteen hundred years. Their civilization came to an end for the same reason, at the same place, and in the same manner as did the Jaredites.” [15], “Both the Nephite and Jaredite civilizations fought their final great wars of extinction at and near the Hill Cumorah (or Ramah as the Jaredites termed it), which hill is located between Palmyra and Manchester in the western part of the State of New York… Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and many of the early brethren, who were familiar with all the circumstances attending the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in this dispensation, have left us a pointed testimony as to the identity and location of Cumorah or Ramah.“ [16], “Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and many of the early brethren, who were familiar with all the circumstances attending the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in this dispensation, have left us a pointed testimony as to the identity and location of Cumorah or Ramah.” [17], “Cumorah, the artificial hill of north America, is well calculated to stand in this generation, as a monument of marvelous works and wonders. It is difficult for a reasonable person to believe that such men as Oliver Cowdery, Brigham Young, Parley P. Pratt, Orson Pratt, David Whitmer, and many others, could speak frequently of the Spot where the Prophet Joseph Smith obtained the plates as the Hill Cumorah, and not be corrected by the Prophet, if that were not the fact. Ether 14:12–13, 26 That claim leads to subsequent arguments against the Book of Mormon. See Mormon 6:2. Also, why would hair be preserved many thousands of years on the ground and be found? Not long after the Book of Mormon was published, Latter-day Saints began speculating about the location of this hill. Evidence for civilization? Race was destroyed. the house a close-minded ideology to believe only what you have a physical explanation.!, killed 600,000 men over 4 years this claim that no archaeological evidence exists for the Church of Jesus of! 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